You nail it with: "character matters". It matters most. If we are successful in life we owe our parents a big "Thank You". In the Navy CWO's and LDO's all get the same advice when getting commissioned: "Keep all your old Enlisted friends, don't make new ones".
I don't know that any science has been applied to assess where the best officers come from. Most assessments are anecdotal at best. You have given this topic an even-handed treatment. In my own experience over 26 years I do have a few non-scientific opinions. USNA ninjas come in two flavors. OCS officers are the easiest for an NCO to mentor and train. NROTC Officers were easier for an NCO to mentor and train than USNA Officers. NESEP Officers and former Enlisted commissioned as Line Officers had a slightly higher than average set of flaws (a stick up their keester) or to be more kind they mirrored USNA Officers and came in two flavors. Navy CWO's and LDO's were picked from a pool of E-7 thru E-9 with 12-24 years of service and E-6 thru E-9 with 8-16 years of service respectively. Most of those chosen were adults.
Disclaimer: I applied for NESEP twice as an E-5 and was rejected. Applied for LDO as an E-7 and failed. Applied for OCS and CWO as an E-7 at the same time. Got accepted for both. Went to OCS as an E-8 and disenrolled after 4 days. Got commissioned as a CWO2 OpTech instead. Applied for LDO again. Rejected. Applied for LDO again after I had earned my SWO qual. Got promoted from CWO3 to LTjg. Retired a LT LDO 5 years later. Pretty sure anecdotes about me run the gamut. I have thick skin and a clear conscience.
Significant edit: The Spearman clearly specifies in different words the thesis of my original comment. I am an Oklahoma public skool graduate and do not always accurately interpret things all proper-like the first goround.
Not many AFA grads head to the Marines. Only one I know of in my class ('93), but he was prior enlisted so I'm sure he knew how to wear the uniform. I didn't keep in touch with him after graduation, but I would be a fair amount that he fell into the superstar category. He was very good at the Academy and an all around good guy.
"Almost every one of these officers seems to have majored in Criminal Justice. Not sure why except perhaps as preparation for dealing with felonious first sergeants."
Trying (and, alas, failing) to come up with a suitable Lance Criminals joke....
Not my area of experience, but among ground forces there is a class of really tricky psycho bastard rockstar officers, or should-be officers that have found a way around the whole command chain by being nominally civilian. John Paul Vann is a good example of the nominal civilian. Gen. Lansdale and Gen. Smedley Butler are examples of the actual officer type. If they're Flashman fans, good chance they're of that type.
I experienced an AF Academy grad as First Shirt. The AF used to be horrible about taking their fighter pilots who made major, who never led anybody anywhere, and make them COs. The guy I had was a$$hole of the world and I spent a year trying to keep him from shafting my troops and trying to keep my troops from lynching him. If he’d been willing to listen to reason it would’ve been a whole different ballgame. Just one example: I was an E-7 MSgt and he sent me to “counsel” an E-9 CMSgt about his dependent son’s misconduct. I tried to explain why that was a horrible idea but he wouldn’t listen. The “counseling” went about as well as you’d expect. Then I marched downstairs and had a talk with the JAG (who had his ear) and explained the stupid thing I just had to do and I didn’t have to do that particular stupidity again.
I love the metaphor of the VMI ring and the tidal change.
I visualized Inchon and the Bay of Fundy. ☺
Sage advice and no mistake.
You nail it with: "character matters". It matters most. If we are successful in life we owe our parents a big "Thank You". In the Navy CWO's and LDO's all get the same advice when getting commissioned: "Keep all your old Enlisted friends, don't make new ones".
I don't know that any science has been applied to assess where the best officers come from. Most assessments are anecdotal at best. You have given this topic an even-handed treatment. In my own experience over 26 years I do have a few non-scientific opinions. USNA ninjas come in two flavors. OCS officers are the easiest for an NCO to mentor and train. NROTC Officers were easier for an NCO to mentor and train than USNA Officers. NESEP Officers and former Enlisted commissioned as Line Officers had a slightly higher than average set of flaws (a stick up their keester) or to be more kind they mirrored USNA Officers and came in two flavors. Navy CWO's and LDO's were picked from a pool of E-7 thru E-9 with 12-24 years of service and E-6 thru E-9 with 8-16 years of service respectively. Most of those chosen were adults.
Disclaimer: I applied for NESEP twice as an E-5 and was rejected. Applied for LDO as an E-7 and failed. Applied for OCS and CWO as an E-7 at the same time. Got accepted for both. Went to OCS as an E-8 and disenrolled after 4 days. Got commissioned as a CWO2 OpTech instead. Applied for LDO again. Rejected. Applied for LDO again after I had earned my SWO qual. Got promoted from CWO3 to LTjg. Retired a LT LDO 5 years later. Pretty sure anecdotes about me run the gamut. I have thick skin and a clear conscience.
Significant edit: The Spearman clearly specifies in different words the thesis of my original comment. I am an Oklahoma public skool graduate and do not always accurately interpret things all proper-like the first goround.
If I missed it I beg pardon. Will reread and amend or delete as appropriate
No, I was just kidding around there.
Didn’t I already mention rockstars?
One common mistake prior enlisted officers make is forgetting they are no longer enlisted.
In the Army, we diagnose this as "failure of OCS (or WOCS) to beat the NCO out of them."
As a former wide-eyed ensign, everything in here tracks - _especially_ academy ninjas coming in two flavors.
Not many AFA grads head to the Marines. Only one I know of in my class ('93), but he was prior enlisted so I'm sure he knew how to wear the uniform. I didn't keep in touch with him after graduation, but I would be a fair amount that he fell into the superstar category. He was very good at the Academy and an all around good guy.
"Almost every one of these officers seems to have majored in Criminal Justice. Not sure why except perhaps as preparation for dealing with felonious first sergeants."
Trying (and, alas, failing) to come up with a suitable Lance Criminals joke....
Not my area of experience, but among ground forces there is a class of really tricky psycho bastard rockstar officers, or should-be officers that have found a way around the whole command chain by being nominally civilian. John Paul Vann is a good example of the nominal civilian. Gen. Lansdale and Gen. Smedley Butler are examples of the actual officer type. If they're Flashman fans, good chance they're of that type.
I experienced an AF Academy grad as First Shirt. The AF used to be horrible about taking their fighter pilots who made major, who never led anybody anywhere, and make them COs. The guy I had was a$$hole of the world and I spent a year trying to keep him from shafting my troops and trying to keep my troops from lynching him. If he’d been willing to listen to reason it would’ve been a whole different ballgame. Just one example: I was an E-7 MSgt and he sent me to “counsel” an E-9 CMSgt about his dependent son’s misconduct. I tried to explain why that was a horrible idea but he wouldn’t listen. The “counseling” went about as well as you’d expect. Then I marched downstairs and had a talk with the JAG (who had his ear) and explained the stupid thing I just had to do and I didn’t have to do that particular stupidity again.
Makes no difference. The only advantage Academy Grads have is they recognize BS quicker, but that advantage only lasts about a year.